Easy Homemade Deodorant That Really WORKS!!!
The Summer of Stink
Back in college I was always warning Daddypotamus about the toxins he was putting into his body, namely cigarettes and Taco Bueno (Gasp! I know, I can’t believe he ate Taco Bueno either!! 
) Well, to show me that my concerns were being taken seriously he decided to take steps to ease the toxic burden on his body.
By giving up deodorant. In the summer. In TEXAS.
Not the “sacrifice” I would have chosen, but it was pretty clever on his part. Rather than give up something that would bother him, he ditched the product whose absence would bother me. A lot. That, ahem, was the beginning of my journey to find a non-toxic deodorant that can handle the manliest of smells. Most commercially sold deodorants contain a slew of toxic chemicals you don’t want in your body and even “natural” deodorants like crystal stones and sprays contain potassium aluminum sulfate (which has been linked with Alzheimer’s disease). The ones that are truly non-toxic typically lose their effectiveness after a few hours.
But wait, why was I worrying about this in the first place? It’s not like he was eating his old deodorant?
Our skin is less of a suit of armor, and more of a fishnet. Our delicate skin cells are quite permeable, and substances seep through our very being and end up in our blood stream with ease. Think of the nicotine patch or the hormone patch. Scientists now realize just how easy it is to filter and flow substances into our core . . . many personal care products like perfume, deodorant, hair dye, and nail polish remover can also be a source of toxic, skin-leaching chemicals. Home cleaning products, too, contain harsh chemicals that can be dangerous to the skin.
After scouring the Web, what we arrived at was a cheap, non-toxic solution so simple you’ll laugh at yourself for ever buying into the commercial hype. But don’t let the simplicity fool you. This recipe has been tested in the badlands of husband arm pit, and has proven its worth.
Are you ready to kiss your store-bought deodorants goodbye? Alright, here’s the recipe!
Ingredients for Man-Smell Killer Deodorant
- equal parts baking soda and either arrowroot powder or GMO-free cornstarch (I use about ½ cup baking soda and 1/2 cup arrowroot)
- mix with coconut oil until moist and then store in a jar
- seriously. that’s it.
- If you want to get fancy, though, add a little lemon, tea tree, rosemary, lavender or bergamot essential oil
Quick Tips: Rub a SMALL amount in using your fingertips until it’s invisible. It works that well! (plus if you cake it on it can leave oil stains on your clothes). Store in an a reused glass jar. OR you can spoon the mixture into an old deodorant container and rub it on that way!
Also, some people find that the baking soda is too alkaline for their skin, which can cause irritation. If this happens try cutting the amount of baking soda in half.
Kristine
Yeah! Thanks for posting this! I’ve tried two aluminum free deodorants including Tom’s and Terra Naturals. They don’t work very well on me.
Heather
You’re so welcome . . . and just in time for summer!
Lizzy
I love that you are doing this blog! I started a similar one after Dutch was born, but then life took over and I had to abandon it.
. So… You just slather this on with your hand? Does it cake or leave white marks? I love that it’s coconut oil, I will wear or eat just about anything with coconut in it. 
gonna give it a try!!
Daniel (Daddypotamus)
Lizzy, consistency is a big deal. We’ve made it too greasy a few times and too dry maybe once. So getting the proportions right is pretty important.
If the proportions are right, it will be of a similar consistency to to most roll-on deodorants. I just take a swipe with my finger tip, like i would if I were getting the last bit of jelly from a jar. I use my index finger to apply it.
We’ve probably used this recipe for 9 months to a year. I’ve had one experience when a dark shirt was stained by white marks. I’m not sure what happened on that particular instance. Either the consistency was wrong or I applied too much, I suppose.
It has a faint pleasant smell, which I like, and completely eliminates odor. As for application, just cover the surface area. Spread on thin. It’s worked for me in the most minimal amounts, as long as I don’t skip any surface area.
.-= Daniel (Daddypotamus)´s last blog ..Gift of Administration? I Hope Not =-.
Heather
Thanks, Liz. Daniel practically forced me to start this blog and now he can’t keep me away from it! Apparently I have a lot more opinions than I realized ; – )
Joanna Moore
thanks for posting this! i’ve been meaning to ask you for the recipe! i’ve actually got 2 unused sticks of deodorant (aside from the 2 we’re currently using ) that i’m gonna take back for a refund! maybe that will pay for the coconut oil! question: how do i know if my cornstarch is GMO-free? and um, how do you apply it out of the jar?
.-= Joanna Moore´s last blog ..Meal Plan Monday! =-.
Heather
It will say GMO free on the container. We have to buy ours at Whole Foods. Sprouts might carry it, too. To apply, just use your fingertips and then wash your hands.
Hannah Tallo
thanks for reminding me…I need to make this!
.-= Hannah Tallo´s last blog ..7th Generation Product Giveaway! =-.
Hannah Tallo
Also I would love a post on lunch ideas, with it just being Ava and I at home for lunch I need ideas. I don’t like spending lots of time making lunch but we don’t usually have lots of leftovers to use either. Any suggestions you have would be great!
.-= Hannah Tallo´s last blog ..7th Generation Product Giveaway! =-.
Kate Cole
This works GREAT! Scott LOVES it and still smells like a pina colada even after a long day at work. I on the other hand, got terrible alkaline burns. I tried making it with just arrowroot and coconut oil and then discovered that I am allergic to coconut! Bummer! I guess I am doomed to stink forever.
Heather
That’s awful. I know it’s not as antibacterial as coconut oil, but what about olive oil? I’ve never tried it but it would probably work.
melyssa
Or cocoa butter?
Heather
That could work! Since it tends to be pretty solid you might want to blend in a little olive oil so it rubs on smoothly, but cocoa butter sounds very soothing!
Michelle
Thanks so much for this recipe. I’ve been using it for a couple of years now and it works great. I like it better than store bought “natural” deodorants which gave me a rash. During the colder months (most of the year for me) I add a bit of olive oil like you mentioned above and that does make it very easy to spread. I just started adding lemon oil and between the smell of coconut and lemon, it smells so good it makes me want to eat it.
Joanna Moore
so i’ve been thinking about this today, and the quote about our skin being like a fishnet makes total sense! and it got me wondering: what is the best thing to use for other toiletries? like shampoo/conditioner, body/face wash, toothpaste, moisturizer/sunscreen, hand/dish soap, shaving cream, etc?
oh and how much of this do you make at a time, and how long does it last?
.-= Joanna Moore´s last blog ..Meal Plan Monday! =-.
Heather
Hey Joanna, nice to see your face on here! We put our deodorant in a small caper jar and it last for months. You might start with 1/4 cup of baking soda and 1/4 cup of arrowroot to start out so you can play with the consistency. It’s hard to work with anything smaller from a measuring standpoint.
Oh, on other products . . . good point! We have changed all the products in our house. There are a lot of options so that will have to be another post.
Tracey
So, another question for you on this…do you melt the coconut oil first or use it in it’s solid form? About how much of a ratio of coconut oil to the dry ingredients? My daughter has used all kinds of deodorants and nothing will keep her odor free…I am interested to try this and also like the idea of it being natural ingredients. Thanks in advance
Heather
Tracy, coconut oil is liquid at our house’s normal room temperature, so I don’t melt it. It would probably be a good idea though just to help it blend better. You’ll have to play with the ratio. Just start with a small amount and keep adding until all the dry ingredients form a ball. If it seems too oily at first don’t worry. The consistency will even out in about a week and lasts for a long time.
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Jessica Bennett Espinoza via FB
I HAVE tried every natural deoderant under the sun and so far have only found ONE that actually works – it’s from LUSH cosmetics. I can’t wait to give yours a try!
Brittany Garrett via FB
Can’t wait to try it. The stuff from lush doesn’t work for me!
Katie Johnson via FB
I love this recipe! Have been using it in hot and humid SC for about three months and it works great.
Lisa Rogers via FB
Excellent! thank you!
Amy Torres-Watts via FB
I use the same recipe and love it. Unfortunately my husband says it makes his underarms burn. Maybe the coconut oil is detoxing all of the bad chemicals from his regular deodorant?
Melissa Holloway via FB
what!?!? that’s all? SO SIMPLE I can’t wait to try this out! I literally have 8 different deodorants collecting dust on my bathroom counter because none of them really work! The best part about this recipe is I have all that stuff in my pantry already
Julie Lucas Enlow via FB
It makes my underarms burn too, but it works really well other than that. I think it’s the baking soda for me. Too alkaline?
Ann MacInnis Smith via FB
I’ll check that out, hope it works
Mommypotamus via FB
@Amy – I agree with Julie that it may be too alkaline for him. It may help to alternate with apple cider or incorporate it into the deodorant somehow for a more tailored ph balance – for more info check out this article on ph balancing http://www.livestrong.com/article/264776-body-odors-ph-balances/
Melanie Padron via FB
I agree that baking soda will do the trick… And I live tx. I make a paste out of it w water… Ill have to try coconut oil!!!
Christine Judd via FB
I will have to try that. This one has worked the best for me so far: http://www.iherb.com/Home-Health-Herbal-Magic-Roll-On-Deodorant-Jasmine-Scent-3-fl-oz-89-ml/6463?at=0
The Balanced Gourmet via FB
Very cool! Thanks
Mommypotamus via FB
@Katie – Yay! So glad to hear it’s working for you!
Mommypotamus via FB
@Melissa – I was shocked when I realized how simple it was, too
Denise Lee via FB
Just made it and can’t wait to give it a test! Driving our jeep with no AC is a good enough test, don’t you think? I’m so happy to find easy and CHEAP ways to go natural. Helps when you’re making the investment on grass-fed meats, organics, etc. to save where you can. Thanks for sharing. My husband has been using a deodorant stone for over 10 years, but I’m going to try to convert him…;)
Anna-Marie Hizer via FB
I tried some made with tis recipe and unfortunately got painful burns on my underarms.
It worked great other than that though.
Corey Dowden Burge via FB
Can’t wait to try this!
Mommypotamus via FB
@Anna-Marie – I’m so sorry! Been doing some research on this and I think the problem is the deodorant is too alkaline for some people. I don’t know how to test this since it has never given me burns, but I think theoretically adding some powdered citric acid (Vitamin C) to the mix could take the edge off the alkalinity.
Melodie
I love this Heather! I have been using a crystal deodorant for years but I find if I drop them they crack and break and before I know it I am throwing them out when I know they are supposed to last a long time. I will definitely try this!
Heather
Hope you like it, Melodie! I love that it’s cheap AND easy.
20-something allergies and counting via FB
IT TOTALLY WORKS! I have almost the same recipe and just shared mine again also (in honor of my working out again)! Great minds think alike.
20-something allergies and counting via FB
For all of the people too sensitive to the baking soda, many people do well with straight coconut oil!
Mommypotamus via FB
Great suggestion, 20 Something! Thanks!
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE
I love the combination of coconut oil and cornstarch. I can attest to the fact that it really does work!
Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE
PS: The coconut oil stops the stink (I think the cornstarch helps, too), but the cornstarch helps with the perspiration. Keeps you dry. Without the cornstarch (or arrowroot as you suggest) I end up wet. Not stinky, but not dry.
CHEESESLAVE via FB
I like coconut oil plus cornstarch. Cornstarch really keeps me dry.
Mommypotamus via FB
CHEESESLAVE – Thanks, Ann Marie!
Denise Lee via FB
Okay, this stuff is AMAZING! I’m officially hooked;) Thanks for sharing it!
Kristina Hippman via FB
i think we are going to try this!
Abbey Byrd
Hi, I’m so eager to try this! My husband on the other hand is a little more reluctant. I did have one question, do you know if arrowroot is safe to use during pregnancy? Thanks!
~Abbey
Charlotte
Ok, I just had to come back and tell you how impressed I am with this. I actually made it a few weeks ago but didn’t dare try it at work and I forgot all about it. Today I did a test run. It’s 27oC outside which is about as hot as it gets in England. I drove an hour in my little unairconditioned Peugeot, then lugged a big trolley around Ikea for an hour, then drove the hour home. I smell lovely! Like shower gel, the one I used this morning I guess. Not only that, I am surprisingly dry. I didn’t realise until today how sticky normal deodorants make me. Thank you so much! I am going to attack my boyfriend with it when he gets home!
Heather
Yay! I love to get comments like this, Charlotte! Thank you for letting me know!
Charlotte
I just popped back to check the recipe for my next batch and saw your reply. I used this stuff in Texas during the drought / heat wave at the end of August (visiting family). No stink. And… I feel like I dealt with the heat better. I know it sounds odd, but I actually found it strangely satisfying to sweat, I felt perfectly comfortable on the occasions when my underarms were wet because I knew I still smelled nice and I really did feel the cooling benefits of getting a bit sweaty! I used up an old can of deodorant recently because I’d run out of bicarb and I hated it. That stuff smells SO strong and it feels really synthetic.
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caroline
I am DEFINITELY going to try this! I’ve been trying to find the perfect natural deodorant for my husband for years and recently read about trying coconut oil, but your recipe sounds like the perfect combination!
You probably know about this already but just in case, to get oil stains out of clothing just dab dish washing liquid on it and toss it in the washer. I just learned about this and clearly the excitement of resurrecting clothes from cooking battles have not yet worn off. For some reason I never seem to remember to change my clothes when cooking.
Joanna Moore
ok so this recipe was great for a while but since the end of summer (i guess due to our house being a few degrees colder) the consistency is so hard that i can’t get it out of the jar unless i scrape it with my finger and then of course it’s not going to go on smoothly. tips? my coconut oil isn’t liquid anymore (again, house temp changes everything grrr!) so i don’t know if i just need to make a fresh batch each season or what.
Joanna Moore´s last [type] ..Zesty Chicken Meatloaf (Grain free!)
Heather
I add more coconut oil this time of year to make it more spreadable. The air is drying so my skin doesn’t mind the extra moisture.
Heather Burris via FB
I added some young living’s purification essential oil and it’s perfect, even for the gym. Amazed!!
Jennifer Sherman via FB
Love this stuff! Amazing, even works with these crazy pregnancy hormones
Kristen Mandujano via FB
Me and my hubby have been using this for almost a year and love it! Thanks so much for sharing!
Mommypotamus via FB
I’m so glad ya’ll like it! Even though we’ve been using it for years now I’m still amazed that something so simple could work so well!
Rachel Hartman Holzworth via FB
Convinced my hubby to try it and it works just fine! He works out hard 5 days a week and works in a hot warehouse on the weekends…he smells just fine!
Michelle Merritt via FB
I am going to makethis in the am!! Hubby finds the natural aluminum stuff we buy dfoesnt work all day.
Michelle Merritt via FB
*aluminum free
Nicole Pyle via FB
My husband and I LOVE this deodorant recipe!
We’ve been using it for about a month now and it works great! 
Thanks!
Sara Creitz Rockarts via FB
I added tea tree oil to mine for an antibacterial boost.
Erica Gorham via FB
I love it, but it broke me out in a rash. I’m trying it with just arrowroot now, and its not quite as powerful. Oh well, it still works!
Mommypotamus via FB
Erica Gorham – Sounds like the PH of the baking soda might be too alkaline for you. Straight arrowroot is a good way to go and I’m glad it working for you! Just in case you might be interested I’ve heard some people have success by doing 25% baking soda, 25% vitamin c (citric acid) to increase the ph, and 50% arrowroot/cornstarch
Erica Gorham via FB
Awesome! I’ll try it with the citric acid. The straight arrowroot is keeping me dry, but there is a slight odor, and I didn’t have that with the baking soda in there. Thanks Heather!
Rebekkah Smith via FB
I LOVE my homemade deoderant! It’s my favorite thing.
LeeandMaia Forde via FB
This is the recipe I use, but I add a few drops of orange oil! Love it, and it really works!!! I haven’t gotten Lee to try it yet though!
Roxanna Farnsworth via FB
I’ve been having a reaction to it
I’ve been using it but I get red irritated bumps right away…. hoping this changes.
angie h
Can’t wait to try this, hubby is willing
I was wondering how do you know the baking soda is aluminum free? Will it always say so on the box/should I assume it has aluminum if it doesn’t say it doesn’t have it? I checked my boxes and they just say sodium bicarbonate…..
Heather
Hi Angie! It should say aluminum free on the package. I use Bob’s Red Mill
Brittany Garrett via FB
Thanks for saying something about the corridor acid. This is the second homemade deodorant I’ve used that has made me break out in a rash, and I couldn’t figure out why. I am not sensitive to any of the ingredients when used in other skincare products. It’s been killing me! I’ll try the citric acid!
Mommypotamus via FB
Roxanna Farnsworth – Hmmm, that could be a ph issue (like Erica Gorham and I were talking about), but I’m curious if you have been checked for a sensitivity to coconut oil. Just a thought . . .
Jessica Beech Griffith via FB
I love this stuff, only natural deodorant that actually works for me!!!
Kristine Dessinger via FB
I use it!
Heather Bain Brandt via FB
Wondering if the baking soda will irritate my sensitive skin, though…
Roxanna Farnsworth via FB
no I haven’t… but I have been consuming coconut oil and using it on my skin with great results, so that would seriously bum me out! I’m thinking ph issue because I’ve always been a heavy perspirerer (LOL) but it was getting better with GAPS and lots of extra magnesium… then I had my 2nd baby 8 weeks ago and everything is all over the place again (thank you hormones).
Syreeta Whitfield Jayne via FB
for Roxanna, I had that problem a couple of times, so I changed things up, I found I had the most problems when I would put my homemade deodorant on right after a bath/shower, I think it was my pores being open right after a bath/shower, so I started showering/bathing at night, applied just straight coconut oil, then put the deodorant on in the morning. I don’t have breakouts or irritations anymore.
Mommypotamus via FB
Ahhhh, Roxanna Farnsworth, that makes sense! CONGRATULATIONS on the birth of your baby! I think a ph issue is more likely, though. Syreeta Whitfield Jayne’s tip is worth a try, don’t you think?
Mommypotamus via FB
Heather Bain Brandt – You could try altering the ph by doing 25% baking soda, 25% vitamin c (citric acid) to increase the ph, and 50% arrowroot/cornstarch or trying Syreeta Whitfield Jayne’s method
Jessica Camp via FB
I am so so happy to see this today! I have given up commercial deodorant because it has been clogging my ducts. I am sooo excited to try this.
now if I can just find your blog entry about delaying solid foods in infants…
Whole New View via FB
This is identical to the one I’ve been making since I started GAPS 2,5 years ago. For some other good ideas: http://www.wholenewview.com/2012/02/personal-care-products-and-cosmetics.html
Mommypotamus via FB
Jessica Camp – Here it is! http://www.mommypotamus.com/when-should-my-baby-start-solids/
Rebecca
Just an FYI: Adding tea tree oil made our armpits itch like crazy!!!!!
Annie
I have been using this tweaked version of deodorant for a little over month and a half and I am so thrilled that my armpits no longer stink! LOL. And I don’t have to re-apply once I’ve done it once during the day! The absolute best part is that it’s safe and natural. Honestly, no other deodorant has been able to completely and fully eliminate the stink as well as this recipe has. I added beeswax and melted everything together, added some tea tree oil and a bit of peppermint for the cooling effect and poured into an empty deodorant stick tube.
Holly
Thanks again for a great article! I shared it on my Coach Hedman FB page! I have found success with Arm and Hammer’s deodorant (hard to find but I can get it at Publix) but still wonder if there is harmful ingredients in it. There is another one I found called Crystal Body Deodorant. I haven’t used it yet but all it has in it is; purified water, natural mineral salts (potassium alum) and cellulose.
Sarah
This is seriously wonderful. My dad was buying a locally made deodorant at an organic store that was selling for $10.99 a tube and had nearly identical ingredients. I’m so happy I found this recipe – it’s such a money saver! I picked 20 lbs of blueberries in 85F sun and sweated like crazy, but I had no odor at all. I put it to the test once again today with an intense workout and again – no smell. Even my regular old (with aluminum) deodorant wouldn’t have made it through those tests. I was afraid I’d be sensitive to the baking soda, so I used 1 part baking soda and 2 parts cornstarch and it’s great. Thank you so much!
Heather
That is so awesome, Sarah! Thank you for taking the time to let me know!
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A
Thanks for the information.
Is this deodorant recipe the same one in your new ebook?
Thanks!
Heather
Yes, it is! There are 2 others as well
Lindsay Tincher
I would like to try your arm deodorant recipe but i am not sure how much of each ingredient to use, if you could give me the amounts of each to use i would really appreciate it.
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Lindsay Tincher
Thank you so much! I just didn’t know about the coconut oil, I made some last Saturday. I did the 1/2 c of both baking soda and cornstarch that she said in her blog, I just kept adding in the coconut oil but now it is kinda hard so I could’ve used more coconut oil but I just scoop it out and let it melt (it does that pretty quickly) and put it on. Our soon to be 8 year old daughter is now in need of arm deodorant, so I am glad it made a bunch because we split it. I’ve NEVER had any luck with ANY arm deodorant and the first time I used this, IT WAS A MIRACLE
I LOVE IT!!! Thank you so much!!!!!
Lee
Does it prevent perspiration at all or just take away smell?
I’m curious to try this, but I’m wary, because my sweating problem is so bad that I’m worried I’ll just sweat off the natural deodorant.
Heather
It doesn’t prevent it but it does absorb some of it, and it definitely takes away smell!
Lee
update: I gave this a good effort, tried it for a week. I stopped because I still smelled really terrible and sweated like crazy. Might just be me…I have a very real sweating problem. But this might be good to know for someone with major sweating issues like me.
Heather
Wow, this is the first time I’ve heard it didn’t work for someone. Thanks for the feedback!
Alison
Ok so first of all, I first made this months ago, and it works GREAT! Unlike most “natural” deodorants it really WORKS!! I never expected it to actually work on my hubby, but it definitely does! I like it too, but after I use it for a few days I have to stop because my armpits get extremely irritated? So then I just switch to straight coconut oil. I’ve been making it with the organic cornstarch I have…do you think it’s that or the baking soda that’s causing the irritation?
Heather
Yes, it might be the baking soda. Skin has a slightly acidic pH, and baking soda is alkaline. Depending on your unique chemistry you may need to lower the pH a bit to make it match your skin better. To do this, just increase the ratio of cornstarch to baking soda.
Samantha
I’m confused why you mention aluminium-free baking soda. I thought baking powder had to be aluminium-free, but that there is no aluminium in baking soda.
Melisa
Is there anything non-oily that can be used instead of the coconut oil? Even rubbing the tiniest bit of coconut oil under my arms leaves oily stains on my shirts.
Erika
Just heard your talk on the village green network. So much great info, thanks! Am excited to give this a try but am wondering, for those of us that are candida challenged, are there any tweaks you might suggest? Like arrowroot vs. cornstarch, might one be better in this instance? How about essential oils?
Heather
If it were me, I’d avoid cornstarch in situation where yeast overgrowth is an issue. Re: essential oils: I am not aware of any essential oil on my suggestion list that are contraindiacted for candida. That’s not to say one isn’t, though. You might want to check with an essential oil expert on that!
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Traci
This is perfect. I’m definitely sharing. I also love the quote you included: “Our body is less of a suit of armor and more of a fishnet.” True, true.
Julie
Is the coconut oil raw or expeller pressed or does it even matter?
Gonna try this real soon!!!
Erin
I’ve been using a similar recipe for about a year now. I would warn that if it melts it sort of separates and needs to be mixed up again. I’ve had that happen and you get some really dry parts and some really oily part in the same container. The same thing has happened with my homemade toothpaste. I actually bought one of those coffee cup warmer trays for about $10 that I some times use to warm up my creations for better application.
P.S. LOVE your blog!
Rosanne
Like Samantha, (March 23, 2013 post), I am confused about “aluminum free” baking soda. I went to Whole Foods in search of it and was told by an employee that only baking powder can be aluminum free because there is no aluminum in baking soda. I also looked up Bob’s Red Mill baking soda and powder, and found same result: they offer aluminum free baking powder but not soda. Have you actually found a product that is labeled aluminum free baking soda? Or is it baking powder you are using?
Heather
Hi Rosanne! At the time I wrote this post Bob’s Red Mill designated their baking soda as aluminum-free on the package. Though this was meant to assuage the fears of those who had baking soda confused with baking powder, it actually just confused a lot of people (like me!) more! Here’s the scoop on baking soda: http://www.crunchybetty.com/the-great-baking-soda-anti-hoax I’ve updated the post
Rosanne
Thank you so much for clearing up my confusion! I read crunchy betty’s blog you referenced – informative and funny! I’ve been wanting to try out your deodorant recipe for weeks, but wanted to make sure I had the right ingredients first. So, I’m off to Whole Foods to get Bob’s Red Mill baking soda (the aluminum free kind, of course)!
Allyn
I so so so wish this worked for me. We’ve cleaned up so much of our home, but natural deodorants just don’t work for me. I tried multiple kinds, made multiple versions, and I simply sweat too much. Gross.
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